Dialogue 2: The Child Jesus
Summary
This podcast episode explores the spiritual insights of Saint Therese of Lisieux, particularly her chosen name, 'Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face,' focusing on the 'Child Jesus' aspect. Jim Finley and Kirsten Oats discuss how Therese found God's infinite love in ordinariness, drawing parallels between childlike qualities and spiritual maturity. They delve into scriptural parables illustrating surrender, acceptance, and the nature of the Kingdom of God, emphasizing an interior, mystical realization rather than striving.
Key Insights
The 'Child Jesus' signifies Jesus' divine presence becoming part of one's human nature.
Therese found the 'Child Jesus' in the Gospels, particularly the story of Bethlehem. She understood that when the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, Jesus' divine presence became integral to her own human nature. The infant Jesus, cradled by Mary and Joseph, represented God in human form. She pondered how this mystery of childhood could deepen her sense of God's presence in her life.
Childlike qualities, cultivated as an adult, are foundational to spiritual maturity.
Therese helps us understand the divinity inherent in the mystery of childhood. As adults, we can consciously cultivate certain dimensions of children, which serve as the foundation for our own spiritual maturity. This is her unique insight into spiritual growth.
Therese's spiritual depth lay in her profound experience of ordinary intimacy, not ecstasy.
Unlike ecstatic mystics like Teresa of Avila or Julian of Norwich, Therese was not an ecstatic mystic. Her profundity came from her deep, clear insight into the divinity of ordinariness and its intimacy with God. This makes her spirituality accessible to ordinary people.
Therese experienced divine intimacy in ordinariness, not through ecstatic episodes.
While Therese likely knew of ecstatic experiences, she did not have them. Her profound connection was with the divinity of her own ordinary self, non-distinct from Jesus. Her death was described as potentially ecstatic, but her life's work was to illuminate God's presence within the ordinary.
Habitual sincerity with God means acknowledging one's true self before the divine presence.
Therese cultivated a habitual sensitivity to Jesus' oneness with her in her ordinariness, not always feeling it but living by an underlying conviction. This sincerity, as Thomas Merton noted, goes a long way. It's about truthfully presenting oneself to God: 'Here I am, Lord.' This sincerity fosters Jesus' ongoing presence and guidance.
Jesus' presence is an intimate, ongoing, internal guidance, not merely a theological concept.
For Therese, Jesus was a personal presence, offering insights 'heart to heart.' This was experienced as an intimate, ongoing realization, like one's own heartbeat, providing constant inner guidance. She invites us to cultivate this same inner sense of Jesus' personal illumination, even in the act of sharing these talks.
Spiritual maturity involves outgrowing childishness while retaining childlike sincerity and transparency.
While taking on adult responsibilities, Therese believed certain childlike qualities are essential for spiritual maturity. This maturity is achieved by outgrowing childish behaviors and embracing childlike sincerity. Therese experienced a decisive moment of growth where she matured while remaining the 'Child Therese of the Child Jesus.'
Accepting God's presence involves surrendering like a child sleeping peacefully in its father's arms.
The 'road that leads to the divine furnace' is the surrender of a little child sleeping without fear in its father's arms. This image, drawing from the infancy of Jesus, illustrates total surrender. The child sleeps deeply because the parent's arms embody God's love holding the infant, symbolizing a surrendered state of being that reveals and burns away irrelevancies.
The limitless limits of a baby reveal our own limits and God's boundless acceptance.
The first parable is the image of a mother holding a newborn infant, embodying Jesus' infancy. The infant, completely dependent and unaware, represents 'essence of limit.' Yet, its clasping reflex shows imperial strength, a 'limitless nature incarnate in its very limits.' This reveals the mother's own limitless capacity for love and her finite yet profound capabilities, mirroring God's limitless acceptance of us in our own limits.
Mystical experience transcends psychological maturity by prioritizing love over unreasonable reason.
While psychological maturity (like Teresa of Avila's third mansion) is valuable, it can be 'too reasonable' and hesitant, always keeping the shore in view. Mystical union, exemplified by Therese, involves being led into 'open water' by love, revealing the incarnate infinite love in ordinary life, beyond the limitations of purely rational understanding. Spiritual bypassing of psychological maturity is cautioned against, but divine union transcends it.
The Kingdom of God is found in accepting it like a child accepts, without striving.
Jesus' statement, 'the kingdom of God belongs to such as these,' and that one must receive it 'like a little child,' emphasizes acceptance. The Kingdom can be understood as life after death, a present reality (within us), or an event in consciousness. The crucial insight is that true acceptance isn't achieved through striving but happens when we cease trying, mirroring how children naturally accept love.
Spiritual maturity is growing into who God eternally sees us to be, not just psychological growth.
This maturity is not solely psychological development but an unexplainable maturing into one's divine identity as seen by God. It involves transformations of the heart, revealing the divinity within, moving beyond a purely reasonable approach to embrace love's call into infinite, incarnate love.
Sections
Introduction and Therese's Name
Welcome to Season 13 of Turning to the Mystics, focusing on Saint Therese of Lisieux.
Kirsten Oats welcomes listeners and Jim Finley to the second session discussing St. Therese of Lisieux. She introduces the context of the first session, where Therese was called the 'Little Flower' due to an insight about God's equal love for all diverse flowers, realizing God's infinite love infused her ordinariness. This second session will explore Therese's name, 'Sister Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face,' specifically the 'Child Jesus' part.
Therese chose her name 'Child Jesus' to reflect her personal experience of Jesus' presence.
The name 'Sister Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face' was officially given to her upon joining monastic life, but it was a name she chose herself. In her order, new members kept their baptismal name but could add a devotional name representing their personal experience of God or Jesus. Therese chose these names to reveal her intimate connection with Jesus.
The 'Child Jesus' signifies Jesus' divine presence becoming part of one's human nature.
Therese found the 'Child Jesus' in the Gospels, particularly the story of Bethlehem. She understood that when the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, Jesus' divine presence became integral to her own human nature. The infant Jesus, cradled by Mary and Joseph, represented God in human form. She pondered how this mystery of childhood could deepen her sense of God's presence in her life.
Childlike qualities, cultivated as an adult, are foundational to spiritual maturity.
Therese helps us understand the divinity inherent in the mystery of childhood. As adults, we can consciously cultivate certain dimensions of children, which serve as the foundation for our own spiritual maturity. This is her unique insight into spiritual growth.
Therese's spiritual depth lay in her profound experience of ordinary intimacy, not ecstasy.
Unlike ecstatic mystics like Teresa of Avila or Julian of Norwich, Therese was not an ecstatic mystic. Her profundity came from her deep, clear insight into the divinity of ordinariness and its intimacy with God. This makes her spirituality accessible to ordinary people.
Understanding Ecstatic Mysticism
Ecstatic mystics experience a profound, self-disappearing union with God during prayer.
An ecstatic mystic, in prayer, experiences God's presence so profoundly that they lose their sense of self. Their reflective consciousness, illumined by faith, becomes boundless, leading to a state of ecstatic communion where distinctions between self and God dissolve. Teresa of Avila is given as an example, who described not knowing if anything happened because she wasn't 'there'.
Signs of ecstatic mystical experience include a desire for God's will and an unexplainable certitude of divine presence.
Teresa of Avila described three signs that indicate something happened during an ecstatic experience: 1. An overwhelming desire to do only God's will. 2. An unexplainable certainty of being in God and God being in them, a foreshadowing of eternal life. 3. Becoming like a 'butterfly with tattered wings,' seeing finite things as infinitely less than the infinite beloved, yet recognizing God's love even in their nothingness.
Therese experienced divine intimacy in ordinariness, not through ecstatic episodes.
While Therese likely knew of ecstatic experiences, she did not have them. Her profound connection was with the divinity of her own ordinary self, non-distinct from Jesus. Her death was described as potentially ecstatic, but her life's work was to illuminate God's presence within the ordinary.
The Practice of Sincere Following
Therese's commitment to serve Jesus reflects a disciple's dedication to following His presence in daily life.
Quoting Therese, 'In my name that I wish to serve Jesus only,' highlights the idea of discipleship. This is analogous to the disciples Jesus called to 'follow me.' It's a prayerful intention to embody following Jesus in the details of one's day, trusting that Jesus illuminates straying intentions and guides one back, remaining one with us even in missteps.
Habitual sincerity with God means acknowledging one's true self before the divine presence.
Therese cultivated a habitual sensitivity to Jesus' oneness with her in her ordinariness, not always feeling it but living by an underlying conviction. This sincerity, as Thomas Merton noted, goes a long way. It's about truthfully presenting oneself to God: 'Here I am, Lord.' This sincerity fosters Jesus' ongoing presence and guidance.
Jesus' presence is an intimate, ongoing, internal guidance, not merely a theological concept.
For Therese, Jesus was a personal presence, offering insights 'heart to heart.' This was experienced as an intimate, ongoing realization, like one's own heartbeat, providing constant inner guidance. She invites us to cultivate this same inner sense of Jesus' personal illumination, even in the act of sharing these talks.
The 'Child Jesus' and Spiritual Maturity
Spiritual maturity involves outgrowing childishness while retaining childlike sincerity and transparency.
While taking on adult responsibilities, Therese believed certain childlike qualities are essential for spiritual maturity. This maturity is achieved by outgrowing childish behaviors and embracing childlike sincerity. Therese experienced a decisive moment of growth where she matured while remaining the 'Child Therese of the Child Jesus.'
Surrendering to love, particularly God's infinite love, is the core of childlike sincerity.
Therese's insight connects childlike sincerity to surrendering to love. Specifically, it's surrendering to the infinite love of God, which illuminates and stirs us. This surrender is described as entering the 'divine furnace,' where anything irrelevant to God's infinite love is burned away.
The 'divine furnace' symbolizes the burning away of impurities by God's infinite love, leaving only divine reality.
The image of a 'divine furnace' represents the experience of God's infinite love consuming all that is not essential, like a drop of water vanishing on a hot stove. Its relevance is that only God's infinite love for us is the ultimate reality. This state encompasses being one with God, even amidst difficult circumstances, and transcends a focus on personal states or conditions.
Accepting God's presence involves surrendering like a child sleeping peacefully in its father's arms.
The 'road that leads to the divine furnace' is the surrender of a little child sleeping without fear in its father's arms. This image, drawing from the infancy of Jesus, illustrates total surrender. The child sleeps deeply because the parent's arms embody God's love holding the infant, symbolizing a surrendered state of being that reveals and burns away irrelevancies.
Parables of Christian Life
Mystics use scripture not as proof texts, but as revelations of life and self.
The approach taken is to see scripture not as theological proof texts, like in the Reformation or Enlightenment-influenced approaches, but as stories that reveal life and ourselves. When meditating on these scriptural narratives, we discover how to experience surrender and divine presence in our ordinary lives.
The limitless limits of a baby reveal our own limits and God's boundless acceptance.
The first parable is the image of a mother holding a newborn infant, embodying Jesus' infancy. The infant, completely dependent and unaware, represents 'essence of limit.' Yet, its clasping reflex shows imperial strength, a 'limitless nature incarnate in its very limits.' This reveals the mother's own limitless capacity for love and her finite yet profound capabilities, mirroring God's limitless acceptance of us in our own limits.
Mystical experience transcends psychological maturity by prioritizing love over unreasonable reason.
While psychological maturity (like Teresa of Avila's third mansion) is valuable, it can be 'too reasonable' and hesitant, always keeping the shore in view. Mystical union, exemplified by Therese, involves being led into 'open water' by love, revealing the incarnate infinite love in ordinary life, beyond the limitations of purely rational understanding. Spiritual bypassing of psychological maturity is cautioned against, but divine union transcends it.
The Kingdom of God is found in accepting it like a child accepts, without striving.
Jesus' statement, 'the kingdom of God belongs to such as these,' and that one must receive it 'like a little child,' emphasizes acceptance. The Kingdom can be understood as life after death, a present reality (within us), or an event in consciousness. The crucial insight is that true acceptance isn't achieved through striving but happens when we cease trying, mirroring how children naturally accept love.
Moments of profound acceptance involve surrendering to a deeper reality beyond analysis or effort.
An example of profound acceptance occurred when a mother, after giving a clever but age-appropriate answer to her son's question, joined him in looking out the window, becoming an act of shared wonder. This illustrates interior surrender, leaning into a reality beyond the immediate, whether in silence, solitude, or responding to loved ones. These fleeting moments unveil our true nature as an echo of God's infinite acceptance.
Therese's experience of growing up instantly on Christmas Day exemplifies divine transformation.
On Christmas Day, 1886, at age 12, Therese experienced a profound 'complete conversion' or 'grace of leaving my childhood.' When her father expressed mild annoyance about continuing the slipper present tradition, she suppressed her tears, retrieved the slippers joyfully, and acted with mature delight, seeing her father's happiness in her own. She felt Jesus desired to teach her maturity, transforming her heart instantly.
Spiritual maturity is growing into who God eternally sees us to be, not just psychological growth.
This maturity is not solely psychological development but an unexplainable maturing into one's divine identity as seen by God. It involves transformations of the heart, revealing the divinity within, moving beyond a purely reasonable approach to embrace love's call into infinite, incarnate love.
We are called to grow infinitely with God, whose essence is endlessness incarnating itself in the present.
Because God is infinite, our journey with the divine is endless. Gregory of Nyssa's concept of eternity and Therese's teaching suggest that this endlessness is not just a future state but constantly incarnates itself in our present reality. Entering the Kingdom of God is an event in consciousness, realizing this paradox of infinite present love.
Discernment involves refining love lessons found in current circumstances and increasing awareness.
Through practices like lectio divina, we stabilize in discernment, learning to become more refined in love lessons presented by our circumstances. This includes developing awareness of what we are not aware of, with God's guidance to accept this process of expanded consciousness and refined love.
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